Older millenial here.
Max I ever spent on renting was 25% of my net income, but usually it was more like 20%. Now I actually spend only 10% of my net income on my mortgage, thanks to inflation helping my income while keeping the mortgage static.
(Sure there are also taxes on top of the mortgage, but I’m also building equity. Taxes + interest is even less than 10%)
Younger generations are definitely getting screwed.
Don’t accept the status quo.
Just curious about your perspective. What would you think are some good ideas on changing the status quo?
I think that outlawing real estate as investments would mean that high to medium density living spaces like apartment complexes or high rises in cities don’t get built, and allowing the government to dole out who gets what properties is another recipe for disaster.
Please don’t take this as confrontational, I’m genuinely trying to consider what alternatives some people are thinking about.
I think Henry George had the right idea.
Fact is, as people get more money, they want bigger homes, second homes, rental properties, etc…
It’s going to be a never ending bidding war between citizens to own the most and nicest properties.
So the solution is to tax real estate at high rates, but give that money back in the form of deductibles on income tax to the middle class who live in their middle class owner occupied homes.
Another part is to let government build a huge supply of very basic, affordable housing, which then serves as a price anchor.
Basically, not outlawing homes as investment, but making them unappealing as investments.
Most developed countries had or have systems like this in place. They just need strengthening.
Tax the shit out of residential real estate investments for corporations and anything beyond the first 3 dwellings owned by individuals. Carve out exceptions for apartment complexes.
Stop corporations from owning anything other than appartments buildings full stop.
Tax the shit out of anything other than the primary residence.
I wouldn’t carve out an exception for apartment complexes.
Transition apartment complexes to a condo model with HOA fees to cover all the shared upkeep and expenses. Limit HOA fees to real upkeep costs and expenses (no massive profits for a HOA management company).
My sister-in-laws first place was an apartment complex converted to condos. Her mortgage plus HOA fees where the same as the rent on a comparable apartment in he area.
When she got married, had kid, and purchased a larger place 5 years later, she got her down payment plus all of her mortgage payments back (sold it for 10% more than she bought it for).
Stop vilifying the poor, high subsidies and incentives for living in high-density housing including de-incentivizing predatory landlords, increase taxes on the rich, and a sliding scale of taxes on multiple properties with the lowest rates affecting the lowest value properties.
I was paying 400 for one bedroom in 2000. Now my apartment is 1800 which is about 60% of my income. The future is bullshit
Same hat kinda, around year 2000 I was paying $600 for a nice 2BR apartment.
I’m now paying $1600 for a 1BR in a shitty neighborhood. I make better money now but still.
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Yee we’re all getting fucked but what can we do rent ain’t getting cheaper. Best case is holdout for the next housing market crash or better interest rates.
I’ll buy a home in the next couple years regardless, it just sucks it took this long. I was making good money from age 28-35, then laid off and making less but I worked my way up again at 37 but that speedbump derailed any long term plans I had.
I’m renewing on my current lease, taking over a 2bd for 2400 after my roommate moved out. 1bd in the same complex is going for 2200 for new renters, and its on the low end for my area. Quite frankly I don’t understand how apartments are finding tenants, does everyone just coincidentally make 150k+?
33% of your income is still too fucking much for rent
My parents’ mortgage in the 1980’s was about 15% of our household income. Only my dad worked. It was a house large enough for a few kids, a home office, a guest bedroom, and a big basement entertainment room.
I just read a really good article about why Tokyo, one of the biggest cities in the world, is also one of the most affordable for housing and pretty much everything else. Spoiler, they don’t allow boomer nimbyism and they absolutely do allow a shitload of apartment building pretty much everywhere.
I recently looked up LA and SF and then other American cities in general for the first time on Google Earth. How much you could be allergic to apartments to let that happen? It’s just really incredibly weird all these houses spaced out like nothing. I’d be really utterly surprised if US cities didn’t have a rent problem with such a city design.
California is weird with its zoning laws, and those cities didn’t start out large, nor have they existed as large cities for very long. My guess is that as time passes, those cities will start to look more like NYC, Boston, etc., which have more apartments/condos.
Most American cites spread out because they can. Building up is far more expensive at least in cost than building out…
And the average apartment size is 216 square feet.
Still bigger than the van I live in.
I make ~$1,500-$1,600 every two weeks (varies based on OT). My rent for a small one bedroom is $1,200 (utilities included). Other apartments in my town are easily $1,700+ for a barebones similar place, no utilities included.
As much as I pay for how small my place is, I still have it good compared to others in town. Other apartments I’ve seen have a miniscule kitchen, the only thing keeping them from being kitchenettes are the full sized appliances. I have a decently sized one for the size of my apartment.
I hate it here.
No, I sure as fuck do not. I bet it would’ve been nice though.
I remember only spending half my income on rent. And I’m old. But also from a high cost of living area.
All my life I have spent most of my income on housing and I am older than 35.
I recently had an exhaustive back and forth with a status quo warrior that said actually the poorest workers in the United States were spoiled and rich actually because the GDP was so dazzlingly high compared to other countries.
That was it. That was the entire basis of that smug asshole’s argument. Rent and healthcare costs don’t real. Rejoice, you ungrateful poors.
Isn’t GDP a pretty bullshit metric in general? At least outside of the narrow thing its used to measure
There’s always some chucklefuck that jumps in with “YoU’Re ThE gLoBaL 1%!”
Mid 30s millennial here, no. I remember I could afford a 1 bedroom on my own making minimum wage in my home town, but it was something like 50% of my take-home at the time.
2/3 on my mortgage. Yay.
With any luck my income will continue to grow and this will change in the next few years.
And I’m feeling better and better about buying even if the timing was at the peak last year.
The maoist uprising against the landlords was the largest and most comprehensive proletarian revolution in history, and led to almost totally-equal redistribution of land among the peasantry.
CCP began to implement the collective ownership of expropriated land through the creation of Agricultural Production Cooperatives, transferring property rights of the seized land to the Chinese state.
and then it seems that the government came in to scoop it back up, although that may have been better than what was going on in 1950s China.
Glad to see this was already posted
he stays winningalso they killed some birds or something
hexbear user
My my what a surprise ill informed chinese propaganda from a tankie. I’m sure the millions that starved made it really easy to redistribute their land too eh?
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A) poverty
B) you need to qualify for a mortgage, even with first time homebuyer programs
C) you severely underestimate what the mortgage is
D) people aren’t always expecting to live in the same area for more than 5-7 years, at which point you’ve spent tons of money on closing and PMI that you absolutely aren’t coming out ahead on
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Where I live houses are like $450k minimum for something that doesn’t need major work. Even with a n FHA loan, the mortgage would be untenable. I’ve given up owning a home here.
A small shoebox here is upward of 550k. And at that price, you need to put another 100k if you do things yourself because the house is a shitstain.
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I don’t live in the city. I have friends and a job here. It doesn’t seem like a solution to the problem to tell everyone to move to Ohio or something. And I know what it is to renovate a house. If it is a big enough job, you have to live (pay rent) elsewhere while you do the work. Otherwise, you still have huge material costs on top of your mortgage.
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Sometimes you do have to, sometimes you don’t. If it’s a major enough renovation, it may actually be illegal to inhabit. I have lived in houses with no plumbing before. My wife and I are in our 40’s and that just isn’t going to work.
So you need to pay a car and gas on top. Very good idea!
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You do have to pay the gas, and you do lose hours each day to go to work. Gas these days is at least 100€/month, possibly more.
Genuinely… you seem very out of touch. Your entire premise is incredibly ableist. You presume that anybody can do the things you’re listing, but many of us are living with disabilities, and not everyone has had the opportunities you have had to have enough money to pay for a house, or to buy a car. A $2.5k car is ultimately, MUCH More expensive than buying a more expensive car, because you are getting one that’s barely functional for that price. Once all my bills are out of the way, I take home $100 for all unnecessary expenses anyways, so it would take me years to save up for one of those pieces of junk.
You take for granted that you have the confidence and motivation to do things like, say, even apply to one of these homebuyers programs - but other people have to put in more effort just to get out of bed in the morning.
Check your goddamn privilege.
It sounds like you might know more than me, so def educate me if you think I’m wrong.
However I don’t think point D was addressed at all. First time homebuyers might cover closing costs when purchasing the home, but what about selling it? Afaik closing costs as a seller can be expected to be between 6 and 10%.
Also, when paying a 2k mortgage, you’re not paying yourself 2k depending on interest rate. These days you’re realistically paying yourself 400 while paying the bank 1.6k. Nothing to sneeze at, but just a more accurate portrayal.
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Haven’t heard of balloon mortgages before … that’s wild…
Living paycheck to paycheck is a valid reason how one can’t even save up to consider even buying a house. Soon with the rising prices it will even be living on borrowed time.
renters just make excuse after excuse after excuse why they won’t buy a house.
“wahhh I’m living paycheck to paycheck and may not be able to pay rent this month, let alone set aside a down-payment and closing costs for a house when houses are at an all time high price”
Poor people, amirite? Don’t they know that the solution to all their problems is to just get more money?
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Super weird that they can’t scrape together a down-payment in a time where 60% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck and housing prices are at an all time high.
Also, with interest rates being as they are, mortgages are likely more expensive than rent. Im in the process of closing on a house, and I know our monthly cost is way the hell up from before.
Seriously though dude, you need to take a step back and realize you’re a bit out of touch. All your comments have big “millenials wouldn’t have money problems if they just stopped buying so much avacado toast” energy
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First time home buyers programs pay your full down-payment for you? lol
Where I live, a mortgage payment is twice what rent is. My family won’t move, and I’m not spending 75% of my paycheck on a mortgage. Family won’t move to LCOL. Also mortgage payments have gone up like 35% since the rate hikes, and housing costs are at all time highs.
Stop being poor isn’t an option.
This I such a privileged take that I don’t even know where to begin.
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Would you be willing to share how you make that work? I can’t imagine living on my own for that much, let alone raising 3 kids. What does a weekly meal plan look like? Do you drive? What are rent and property values like in your area?
Edit: Just ran some numbers, and I can see how that could be possible, but it’s dangerously lean. We shouldn’t need to live like that. I commend you for making it work, but would like to say that you’re definitely worth more than $20k/yr (especially with all those home improvement skills, but regardless)
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I continue to be at a loss for words. I’m glad to hear you and your family have realible housing.
Oh yeah, sure, I’ll buy a shitty house an hour away from where I work, in a small village with not even a grocery store! Good idea! And then I’ll be stuck there for the rest of my life because you can’t sell houses in these places, because they are shitty!
Buying a house or apartment is a several decades investment. If you’re settled in your life, sure, do that, but not everyone is in this case, and not everyone in this case can afford it.
BTW, so you know banks will not give you money these days? Half the requests are refused by banks in France these days because they’re waiting for the yields to increase again.
Just because things worked out for you doesn’t mean they work out for others. You’re not taking crazy pills, you’re lacking empathy and seem very out of touch with reality.
You severely underestimate the number of people who lack ambition, life skills, discipline, and financial responsibility. It may seem easy to you but to people without these things, it’s like climbing a mountain.
Who has time to develop all that when you’re burned out, pushed to your limit at your job that barely covers your primary expenses?
I know, not the whole picture, but neither is what you’re saying. The first thing you list is ambition? I hope that’s not in order of importance because I don’t think most people lack ambition, I think they get stretched too thin and feel its hopeless no matter what.
Financial responsibility, life skills, these are important issues and more should be done to improve quality of them for the population. But discipline and ambition require a world where those get rewarded, and for some lucky people they do, but for many that’s just not the case.
My dude it takes me hours to hype myself up to make a phone call, the things you’re talking about simply aren’t possible for a lot of us.
Yo, I’ve been there. Have you considered therapy?
Therapy costs money lmao
Every penny you put into a house is like a savings account that doesn’t actually count against you. You get done with that loan, and the worth of that house is yours.
How should I reconcile this with the statement “you should see housing as necessities rather than investments”?
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Just buy a house 4Head
Best I can do is 50%
Huh, I only spend 25%. But then again, I rent from municipality owned housing in Sweden.
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Until a decade ago, the rule of thumb was never spend more than 20% of your salary on rent. Then it changed to 25%. Now everyone’s saying 33% like there’s some sort of thought behind that number other than “We want more of your money”…
33%? For the last 5 years I’ve been paying closer to 45-50%.
That’s not counting power bills, which cost several times more than in the US.
