The skill is debate and debunking. It should be fairly simple to show a serial lack of honesty and bullshit. If you can show that then it should be fairly simple to get people to stop listening and disconnect. Calling their words mean will convince no one. Do the work if you care so much.
It’s not a debate skill issue, it’s an education issue. What bad faith actors do when pretending to debate is just real-time trolling, they’re not interested in debate, and debating lends legitimacy to their idiocy. “Don’t feed the troll.” People need to educated enough that they themselves walk away from disingenuous debates and stop listening.
Watch “thank you for smoking” or read literally anything on persuasive argument. Exposing and publicizing these viewpoints does not make them less popular. Allowing the “alt-right” to have “free exchange in the marketplace of ideas” has only led to there being more Nazis or Nazi adjacent people now than there was before we did that. The “alt-right” isn’t even alt anymore, it’s the mainstream right-wing position.
People that think “oh well that’s only because we haven’t had the right argument” are completely ignorant of history. We didn’t defeat Hitler in “the marketplace of ideas”, and you won’t defeat Putin or Trump there either.
Have you considered that your Overton window has changed and everybody you think is Nazis and Nazi adjacent are just more right of your politics now than before? There hasn’t been a major shift in the public but internet politics has shifted drastically.
Yeah on second thought you’re right, Putin is actually a leftist, and it’s totally not Nazi-ish to call for white nationalism, rally saying “Jews will not replace us”, or try to overthrow the government because you don’t like election results. /s
PS: If this argument is an example of how you’re going to persuade Nazis or the general public in a debate with Nazis into not being Nazis, you’re even more deluded than you know.
You cherry pick the most extreme examples and then call everybody a Nazi. I wasn’t talking about Putin. I wasn’t talking about Trump. I was talking about everyday people. The vast majority of people which means the one that decide what politics win. Remember in a democracy the one with the most votes wins. All the extreme viewpoints that you point to are a minority of a minority.
“Never believe that [fascists] are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.”
Yup. Fascists don’t have the skills to argue in good faith, and no one should listen to anything any of them have to say. I hope no one makes that mistake in this thread by listening to you.
Sounds like a skill issue.
Skill?? What is this “get on my level” shit? They are trying to kill us.
There’s a big overlap between gamers and fascists, due to Roger Stone and his WOW gold farming days.
It’s actually pretty interesting read, but I couldn’t find a good article on it now
Even when the phrase is used in gaming, it’s an admission of defeat.
“The game is messed up, but I don’t want to sound wrong.”
The skill is debate and debunking. It should be fairly simple to show a serial lack of honesty and bullshit. If you can show that then it should be fairly simple to get people to stop listening and disconnect. Calling their words mean will convince no one. Do the work if you care so much.
It’s not a debate skill issue, it’s an education issue. What bad faith actors do when pretending to debate is just real-time trolling, they’re not interested in debate, and debating lends legitimacy to their idiocy. “Don’t feed the troll.” People need to educated enough that they themselves walk away from disingenuous debates and stop listening.
You sure like sticking up for nazis.
I don’t know what thread you’ve been reading but I’m sticking up for speech.
But you’re talking like debate will make the bigots stop.
Why would I claim the bigots would stop. I only claim that they would fail. They have the right to continue. They have the right to be wrong.
Watch “thank you for smoking” or read literally anything on persuasive argument. Exposing and publicizing these viewpoints does not make them less popular. Allowing the “alt-right” to have “free exchange in the marketplace of ideas” has only led to there being more Nazis or Nazi adjacent people now than there was before we did that. The “alt-right” isn’t even alt anymore, it’s the mainstream right-wing position.
People that think “oh well that’s only because we haven’t had the right argument” are completely ignorant of history. We didn’t defeat Hitler in “the marketplace of ideas”, and you won’t defeat Putin or Trump there either.
Have you considered that your Overton window has changed and everybody you think is Nazis and Nazi adjacent are just more right of your politics now than before? There hasn’t been a major shift in the public but internet politics has shifted drastically.
Yeah on second thought you’re right, Putin is actually a leftist, and it’s totally not Nazi-ish to call for white nationalism, rally saying “Jews will not replace us”, or try to overthrow the government because you don’t like election results. /s
PS: If this argument is an example of how you’re going to persuade Nazis or the general public in a debate with Nazis into not being Nazis, you’re even more deluded than you know.
You cherry pick the most extreme examples and then call everybody a Nazi. I wasn’t talking about Putin. I wasn’t talking about Trump. I was talking about everyday people. The vast majority of people which means the one that decide what politics win. Remember in a democracy the one with the most votes wins. All the extreme viewpoints that you point to are a minority of a minority.
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“Never believe that [fascists] are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.”
L + Ratio + get fucked fascist
You do understand the fascist has a definition right? It’s not just an insult you throw at people with ideas you don’t like.
By being a fascist apologizer, you’re choosing to side with the fascists.
This is your brain on authoritarianism.
Yup. Fascists don’t have the skills to argue in good faith, and no one should listen to anything any of them have to say. I hope no one makes that mistake in this thread by listening to you.