it is Marxism that has brought great improvements to China’s conditions, and these improvements are continuing at a rapid pace, and thus has widespread support.
I can face that reality I think.
All fair points, but what about Taiwan and Hong Kong? What about the treatment of minorities?
You mean the island where the fascist fled after they lost the Chinese civil war and now acts as a base of US military hegemony?
Hong Kong
What about Hong Kong? The UK leased it after they won a colonialist war in the 19th century. The last British governor of Hong Kong was a white dude appointed from London. What about Hong Kong?
“Only 17% of Hong Kongers say they want independence from China with just 20% saying China has abused the “one country, two systems” model to favor Beijing, a Reuters poll released on December 31 shows.”
You mean the island where the fascist fled after they lost the Chinese civil war and now acts as a base of US military hegemony?
So what? Imperialism is suddenly okay if you don’t like the ruling ideology there? That is the same logic underlying US imperialism, and coincidentally, fits the old definition of the word tankie.
What about Hong Kong?
You may recall protests being violently repressed.
Could you give us examples?
Many uighurs have been imprisoned for example.
Also your screenshot once again, just tries to prove China is awesome, because the US is bad. I’m not trying to compare the two.
What are you trying to prove to me? That China is perfect? I know you don’t believe that.
So what? Imperialism is suddenly okay if you don’t like the ruling ideology there?
My brother in NED, it’s not just about a “ruling ideology”, Taiwan is literally a US stronghold against China, and if you recall your geography lessons from high school, you might remember that the United States is in North America on the other side of the Pacific Ocean. If any country does imperialism on that side of the globe it’s the USA, since Taiwan is called Republic of China, and most countries don’t recognize ROC as the “true” China.
You may recall protests being violently repressed.
You may recall that the CIA literally foments colour revolutions against geopolitical rivals or countries who don’t swear fealty to the US. Have you heard of Jacobo Arbenz? Mossadegh? and so on?
You may recall that hours ago I literally quoted that 83% of Hongkongers want to belong to China.
What are you trying to prove to me? That China is perfect? I know you don’t believe that.
The point is, since it eludes you for some reason, is that it’s pure projection from the West of accusing China of bad minority policies, when the West is worse in many many ways. Not that China is “perfect” whatever that means in real world policies, but the West want you to think China = BAD. And the only reason you do this hand-wringing about minorities in China is because US State Department think tanks implanted that thought in your head some time ago by bombarding you with anti-China propaganda.
The other point is that anarchists crying about tankies are just useful idiots, since the real threat to capitalist hegemony is the actually existing socialist countries. That’s why the FBI and the CIA was always more concerned about Leninists than about anarchists.
Others have done far more research on those subjects and can answer them better than I can, so rather than contribute to the spread of nonsense I will refrain from speaking outside of what I factually know.
Hong Kong has experienced violent oppression from China when there were protests. Taiwan wants to be independent but is not recognized as such by China. While Western media has certainly exaggerated claims, there are credible reports of uyghurs being repressed. I’m not saying this behavior is worse than Western imperialist behavior. I’m saying these are imperialist behaviors, and just like the US, the Chinese government tries to cover them up or pretend they aren’t happening, or comes up with some reason for it.
What I’m saying is that there are some people who buy into that, and will shut down any criticism of it.
It’s literally just an American politician at the UN in 2018 citing “credible reports”
As an anarchist, do you often believe what US bureaucrats say? Because if you do I can give you plenty of links from other bureaucrats who don’t agree with her
The World Bank’s work is driven by core principles of inclusion, with special consideration for the protection of minorities and other vulnerable peoples. When allegations are made, the World Bank takes them seriously and reviews them thoroughly. In line with standard practice, immediately after receiving a series of serious allegations in August 2019 in connection with the Xinjiang Technical and Vocational Education and Training Project, the Bank launched a fact-finding review, and World Bank senior managers traveled to Xinjiang to gather information directly. After receiving the allegations, no disbursements were made on the project.
The team conducted a thorough review of project documents, engaged in discussions with project staff, and visited schools directly financed by the project, as well as their partner schools that were the subject of allegations. The review did not substantiate the allegations.
There’s a lot going on here, so I will go section by section.
Hong Kong
The scale of the violence against protestors is exaggerated, and much of the protests were directly funded by Hong Kong bourgeoisie and Western NGOs and States, like the US. Currently, less than a quarter want independence. This is because Hong Kong was a british colony and financially is totally enmeshed with mainland China.
Taiwan
Both Taiwan and the PRC claim legitimate rule to the entirety of China. However, Taiwan’s historical background is as a runaway retreat for the Kuomintang, a Nationalist party that was at war with the much more popular CPC. Taiwan also serves as a staging ground for the US to exert pressure on the PRC.
Uyghur Repression
This is a topic I don’t know enough about, and reserve the right not to speak. However, I will say that claims of “genocide” come from the fascist Adrian Zenz, and moreover travel to Xinjiang is open and freely permissible. In addition, Uyghurs were exempt from the One Child Policy, as all minority populations were. I cannot speak on the treatment within the re-education camps, however, as I have not done the research necessary.
Imperialism
When Marxists speak of Imperialism, they speak of Lenin’s definition and outlining, which refers to a specific stage in Capitalism where Industrial and Financial Capital are exported to super-exploit for super-profits. These actions by the PRC do not constitute Imperialism from that standpoint.
Covering up
I am not aware of the CPC covering up or censoring discussion of these topics.
I can face that reality I think.
All fair points, but what about Taiwan and Hong Kong? What about the treatment of minorities?
You mean the island where the fascist fled after they lost the Chinese civil war and now acts as a base of US military hegemony?
What about Hong Kong? The UK leased it after they won a colonialist war in the 19th century. The last British governor of Hong Kong was a white dude appointed from London. What about Hong Kong?
“Only 17% of Hong Kongers say they want independence from China with just 20% saying China has abused the “one country, two systems” model to favor Beijing, a Reuters poll released on December 31 shows.”
Could you give us examples?
So what? Imperialism is suddenly okay if you don’t like the ruling ideology there? That is the same logic underlying US imperialism, and coincidentally, fits the old definition of the word tankie.
You may recall protests being violently repressed.
Many uighurs have been imprisoned for example.
Also your screenshot once again, just tries to prove China is awesome, because the US is bad. I’m not trying to compare the two.
What are you trying to prove to me? That China is perfect? I know you don’t believe that.
My brother in NED, it’s not just about a “ruling ideology”, Taiwan is literally a US stronghold against China, and if you recall your geography lessons from high school, you might remember that the United States is in North America on the other side of the Pacific Ocean. If any country does imperialism on that side of the globe it’s the USA, since Taiwan is called Republic of China, and most countries don’t recognize ROC as the “true” China.
You may recall that the CIA literally foments colour revolutions against geopolitical rivals or countries who don’t swear fealty to the US. Have you heard of Jacobo Arbenz? Mossadegh? and so on?
You may recall that hours ago I literally quoted that 83% of Hongkongers want to belong to China.
The point is, since it eludes you for some reason, is that it’s pure projection from the West of accusing China of bad minority policies, when the West is worse in many many ways. Not that China is “perfect” whatever that means in real world policies, but the West want you to think China = BAD. And the only reason you do this hand-wringing about minorities in China is because US State Department think tanks implanted that thought in your head some time ago by bombarding you with anti-China propaganda.
The other point is that anarchists crying about tankies are just useful idiots, since the real threat to capitalist hegemony is the actually existing socialist countries. That’s why the FBI and the CIA was always more concerned about Leninists than about anarchists.
House passes $1.6 billion to deliver anti-China propaganda overseas
It doesn’t elude me that the West tries to paint China worse than it is. Although I have learned a thing or two today.
Others have done far more research on those subjects and can answer them better than I can, so rather than contribute to the spread of nonsense I will refrain from speaking outside of what I factually know.
What, specifically, are you asking about?
Hong Kong has experienced violent oppression from China when there were protests. Taiwan wants to be independent but is not recognized as such by China. While Western media has certainly exaggerated claims, there are credible reports of uyghurs being repressed. I’m not saying this behavior is worse than Western imperialist behavior. I’m saying these are imperialist behaviors, and just like the US, the Chinese government tries to cover them up or pretend they aren’t happening, or comes up with some reason for it.
What I’m saying is that there are some people who buy into that, and will shut down any criticism of it.
Could you link one that is not from Adrian Zenz or from ASPI or the US NGO-industrial complex?
edit:
some lurkers might have missed this all timer AMA on reddit when a literal CIA agent from Guantanamo Bay started lecturing about the “Uyghur genocide”
Would Al Jazeera suffice? https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/8/10/one-million-muslim-uighurs-held-in-secret-china-camps-un-panel
It’s literally just an American politician at the UN in 2018 citing “credible reports”
As an anarchist, do you often believe what US bureaucrats say? Because if you do I can give you plenty of links from other bureaucrats who don’t agree with her
It’s not just one guy, the article cites several sources.
There’s a lot going on here, so I will go section by section.
The scale of the violence against protestors is exaggerated, and much of the protests were directly funded by Hong Kong bourgeoisie and Western NGOs and States, like the US. Currently, less than a quarter want independence. This is because Hong Kong was a british colony and financially is totally enmeshed with mainland China.
Both Taiwan and the PRC claim legitimate rule to the entirety of China. However, Taiwan’s historical background is as a runaway retreat for the Kuomintang, a Nationalist party that was at war with the much more popular CPC. Taiwan also serves as a staging ground for the US to exert pressure on the PRC.
This is a topic I don’t know enough about, and reserve the right not to speak. However, I will say that claims of “genocide” come from the fascist Adrian Zenz, and moreover travel to Xinjiang is open and freely permissible. In addition, Uyghurs were exempt from the One Child Policy, as all minority populations were. I cannot speak on the treatment within the re-education camps, however, as I have not done the research necessary.
When Marxists speak of Imperialism, they speak of Lenin’s definition and outlining, which refers to a specific stage in Capitalism where Industrial and Financial Capital are exported to super-exploit for super-profits. These actions by the PRC do not constitute Imperialism from that standpoint.
I am not aware of the CPC covering up or censoring discussion of these topics.