• Tak@lemmy.ml
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            28
            ·
            10 months ago

            Lol “anarchistic country” If a people were ever to have anarchy it would require there be no country. You’re like asking them to find an incel that isn’t a misogynist

            • MrFunnyMoustache@lemmy.ml
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              11
              ·
              edit-2
              10 months ago

              Technically you can have an incel who isn’t a misogynist. Incel just means involuntarily celibate, most incels are misogynists, but some aren’t, and just don’t talk to people at all because of other mental health issues that don’t get treated making that person completely solitary and unable to communicate with others.

              The term incel was coined by a woman who has been involuntarily celibate and saught to create a supportive community for people like her. The problem arrose later.

              Edit: Spelling.

              • Tak@lemmy.ml
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                6
                ·
                10 months ago

                Good point. I didn’t know the background or history of the word.

                • MrFunnyMoustache@lemmy.ml
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  7
                  ·
                  10 months ago

                  No problem. I just thought it was an important distinction because an anarchist country cannot exist by definition, while there is nothing in the definition of incel that requires them to be misogynistic. Though considering how meaning of words change over time, you could make the case that by the modern way we use the word incel, we don’t mean to include all who are involuntarily celibate, but only the toxic people who blame their situation on external factors. Even then, there surely are at least a handful of gay incels who blame other men for not being interested in them, and therefore wouldn’t be necessarily misogynistic.

                  • Tak@lemmy.ml
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    5
                    ·
                    10 months ago

                    Lol I could if I was desperate to be right but I think I used the wrong word to describe what I intended and you can clearly see that. It’s so difficult to pin down meaning on culturally developing words just due to how fluid languages can be. I intended for it to be a clear-cut example of things that can’t exist but you’ve clearly shown it isn’t so clear cut.

        • stevehobbes@lemy.lol
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          10 months ago

          Anarchists are basically our version of libertarians. There’s no internal consistency and the vast majority of ideas or arguments don’t survive even a cursory examination.

          It requires humans to behave in a fundamentally different manner than every bit of recorded human history has shown us. It’s a reality that doesn’t, and with all available evidence, can’t exist.

          • Tartas1995@discuss.tchncs.de
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            10 months ago

            I am not an anarchist and I won’t make their case, but there is a difference between what is and what ought to be. What people have done is a statement about what is. Anarchy, like any other idealogy like it, is about what ought to be.

    • Sanctus@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      6
      ·
      10 months ago

      The Human OS is not ready to be without borders unfortunately. One day, after the last smog-filled breath of air is forcefully exhumed, and all the world’s treasures fail the last baron of wealth, we will be ready. As long as our hearts are wholly material, the world will stay the same.

      • OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        8
        ·
        edit-2
        10 months ago

        We literally didn’t have borders as they exist today until a century ago lmao, they literally solidified around the formation of what we consider modern nation-states.

        The human os isn’t ready for a borderless world my entire ass, the issue is the systems currently in place.

        • stevehobbes@lemy.lol
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          5
          ·
          10 months ago

          Humans have built societies with rules for forever.

          And banish people outside their society.

          I’m not an expert on the theory of all of this, but it seems entirely dubious that anarchy could function in any environment for long.

            • stevehobbes@lemy.lol
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              10 months ago

              In what way isn’t it? How were the borders of the France different than the Roman Empire or Mesopotamia?

              • OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                2
                ·
                10 months ago

                Literally the free movement of people? Borders used to be “the zone of control of a government” and couldnt really exist as checkpoints for people moving back and forth over the border.

                • stevehobbes@lemy.lol
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  2
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  10 months ago

                  That feels like a distinction without a difference? The vast vast majority of physical land borders are effectively open everywhere worldwide still today.

                  The zone of control of a government just kicks you out if they don’t want you?

                  • OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    ·
                    10 months ago

                    There is a massive difference if you can practically establish who is allowed into and out of a country

            • Sanctus@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              10 months ago

              Go ahead and remove their states and countries. Most people would explode. Eventually thats the way. But take an honest look around. It wont happen today

          • NotJustForMe@lemmy.ml
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            10 months ago

            A light form was tribalism. If you didn’t go with the flow, you were expelled. With enough expelled ones, new tribes were formed. It kinda created human diversity for a while. There was only so much room on the river, so at some point more elaborate systems emerged. And the people with the biggest huts made those rules. Rules were made so that they could keep those huts. Extremely simplified.

            We now don’t have places to banish people to. That’s why the cry for housing is emerging. Someone took the wild away. They should provide an alternative. I believe that’s the whole idea behind wanting the rich to pay. For some reason they were allowed to own everything. Often for centuries.

            It makes little sense to people today. How was anyone allowed to walk somewhere, stake a claim, and own it forever? Even defending it with lethal force? Why aren’t we anymore?

            • stevehobbes@lemy.lol
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              10 months ago

              We didn’t then either. The real issue is scale. What worked when the entire population of the human race was 100,000 doesn’t work when it’s 8,500,000,000.

              You’re right that there are no wilds no, no one is getting 40 acres and a mule, and you can just inhabit a new area.

              But let’s not forget that a lot of the stake a claim and defend with lethal force was literally colonialism. So many of those wilds were owned by other people, but the stronger guy with the bigger rock can kill him, take his land, take his wife.

              Hardly utopia.

              • NotJustForMe@lemmy.ml
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                10 months ago

                Exactly the point I apparently failed to make. It never worked. Yet we are holding on to it. Just with the added caveat that the weapons are now money, and the wilds are gone.

      • 🐑🇸 🇭 🇪 🇪 🇵 🇱 🇪🐑@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        edit-2
        10 months ago

        Free to be poor (Includes: Threat of starvation, social shunning, homelessness, your entire life collapsing and you can be sure the state is still gonna put you into even more debt. Then put you into prison because you couldn’t pay up where you are coerced into slave labor)