The Institute of Sex Research was burned down in 1933. It wasn’t a “different time”, it was a time with the same political issues and the same Nazi rhetoric attacking trans people. Had something been done to prevent the rise of the Nazis and protect the Institute of Sex Research, trans healthcare would be 50 years ahead in technology and we wouldn’t be facing the same issues today. But Genocide Joe (the Russian one) opted not to do anything about the Nazis until 8 years later when Hitler brought the war to Russia.
Genocide Joe was aware of the issues. He chose not to protect trans people, and he chose to persecute gay people. Marx said a worldwide revolution would be required, but Joe said fuck that, homosexuality is bourgeois, and stayed in Russia. He is in large part responsible for the current plight of LGBT people.
Stalin should have marched on Berlin in 1933, or ideally sooner. That’s what Marx said to do. Stalin was a failure of a Marxist and he failed the world.
He also shouldn’t have outlawed homosexuality in Russia, but I think you and I already agree on that.
If I’m an armchair general, then so was Marx, who said the same things I’m saying, and so was the USSR’s own People’s Commissar of Internal Affairs, Maxim Litvinov. People were telling Stalin that Germany was a threat, and that worldwide communism was required. Stalin ignored communist theory and he ignored members of his own government. And what did his Russia actually do in the end? It signed trade agreements from 1935 to 1939, supplying Hitler with raw materials for the Nazi war machine.
Stalin was an incompetent fool when it came to foreign policy with the Nazis. If he’d had a shred of common decency, he would have tried to do something about the holocaust OTHER THAN helping the Nazis.
There’s Marxists today is inside and outside of China recognizing that the US is a threat to China and that the US is supporting a genocide in Palestine. China should just go ahead and nuke the US now, otherwise they are helping the US to commit and support it’s atrocities, right?
My reply is totally unrelated to this thread. You seem to be very amped up about this. Reading your comments in this thread you really have a strong opinion on the USA, which is not your country. Which means you have as much influence in it as I do, basically none. My question/point, do you know why you’re so amped up about this?
Stalin’s antisemitism is a myth.
Antisemitism was punishable by death and there still were plenty of Jews present in the party. Shortly after the second world war the Jewish Autonomous Oblast was formed in the USSR to provide a safe haven for Jews.
Stalin was anti Nazi even before Hitler took power.
good, now please remind me when and for what reason was Alan Turing killed?
now remind me what happened in Cuba in regards to LGBT over the past 50 years?
I stg some people are immune to dialectics
even if we take your position 100%, jailing LGBT people is not genocide in the slightest, your position just trivializes actual genocide (unless you mean Holodomor, which you should’ve mentioned, and which is absolutely not man-made and doesn’t count as a genocide as such, even if you can criticize some of its surrounding policies)
you’re probably one of the people who say “personality cult bad”, yet you ascribe to Stalin the level of influence that could singlehandedly flip the modern Russian’s outlook on one of the most polarizing topics in modern times 70 years after his death. Well, news flash, nobody has that kind of power. People act as “conductors” of objective historical forces, and Stalin was no exception, even the CIA said there was collective leadership in Stalin’s time. Communism doesn’t recognize “human rights” or any “universal” morals, so you have to scientifically analyze the LGBT movement to make a case for supporting it. Can you blame Stalin for not personally having done research into the gay question over 20 years before the word “gay” even appeared, during the WW2 and its preparatory phase? In order to answer a question, it must first be asked.
when people criticize Stalin in general, they criticize the objective forces he stood for - namely, the preservation of socialism by all means, in spite of countless wars. When Khruschev proclaimed destalinization, he also proclaimed “peaceful coexistence” with capitalist countries, he proclaimed the “state of the whole people” (as opposed to the dictatorship of the proletariat), and started the ball rolling towards the full restoration of capitalism and dissolution of the USSR. Of course, this too isn’t a personal decision of Khruschev, but a manifestation of broader revisionism and opportunism in the party. This is the reason the Marxist-Leninist movement will continue defending Stalin’s legacy.
I ask you, what state would the world be in if we had had a progressive Soviet Union? One that was 50 years ahead of the states on queer issues? One that was committed to racial and religious equality? How would the fight for global communism be going today if Genocide Joe had not armed the US with material for their propaganda that claims communism is right wing? If everyone in the world knew today that the USSR had been a haven for queer and Jewish people, decades ahead of the capitalist regimes, how easy would it be to persuade people into allies of the communist cause today? How much would a genuinely positive example help us?
Joseph Stalin fought the Nazis on the battlefield, but he was their ally in the cause of bigotry and hate. He had every opportunity to choose to become a progressive, and he refused. Fuck him.
With enough time the SU would’ve eventually gotten there. Here I point to Cuba that similarly had reactionary views on LGBT issues in the past and have the world wide most progressive protections for LGBT people.
Joseph Stalin fought the Nazis on the battlefield, but he was their ally in the cause of bigotry and hate.
Stopping the Holocaust means that Stalin was a bigot and was hateful. Please get a grip.
It shouldn’t take time for a person to realise that criminalising being gay is wrong. You should just know that by the time you’re 5 years old. At the latest. I have no idea what Genocide Joe’s parents taught him as a child, but they obviously failed to raise a good boy. They raised a shithead.
Good people (such as the wonderful scientists at the Institute of Sex Research) are capable of critical thinking and questioning their problematic beliefs. That’s always been true and it always will be. There has never been a time in history when a good person thought we should throw all gay people in jail.
Genocide Joe the first is dead. There’s nothing to gain by supporting him. Biden is alive. He’s most likely going to be a participant in the upcoming election that decides whether my partner lives or dies. I care about my partner’s life.
Ok let me rephrase, it’s funny that you recognize that Brandon is not “a good person” but still are willing to look past his flaws, but aren’t willing to do so for Stalin?
On a serious note: I hope you and your partner will be fine and I mean it. I just doubt that it will be significantly different under Biden than Trump (see caged children on the Mexican border. Biden continues trump’s policy just more “professionally” for a lack of a better word)
Sounds like lesser-evilism to me. I don’t really have that much of a problem with you thinking all that if you can apply the same mindset to modern politics.
The Institute of Sex Research was burned down in 1933. It wasn’t a “different time”, it was a time with the same political issues and the same Nazi rhetoric attacking trans people. Had something been done to prevent the rise of the Nazis and protect the Institute of Sex Research, trans healthcare would be 50 years ahead in technology and we wouldn’t be facing the same issues today. But Genocide Joe (the Russian one) opted not to do anything about the Nazis until 8 years later when Hitler brought the war to Russia.
Genocide Joe was aware of the issues. He chose not to protect trans people, and he chose to persecute gay people. Marx said a worldwide revolution would be required, but Joe said fuck that, homosexuality is bourgeois, and stayed in Russia. He is in large part responsible for the current plight of LGBT people.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institut_für_Sexualwissenschaft
That was in Germany. How is Stalin responsible for that?
Stalin famously siding with the Nazis her and the Soviets not crushing them in WW2
You’re comparing apples and oranges
Stalin should have marched on Berlin in 1933, or ideally sooner. That’s what Marx said to do. Stalin was a failure of a Marxist and he failed the world.
He also shouldn’t have outlawed homosexuality in Russia, but I think you and I already agree on that.
Armchair general here telling us what should’ve been done.
Yes I do agree that was indeed a shit move.
If I’m an armchair general, then so was Marx, who said the same things I’m saying, and so was the USSR’s own People’s Commissar of Internal Affairs, Maxim Litvinov. People were telling Stalin that Germany was a threat, and that worldwide communism was required. Stalin ignored communist theory and he ignored members of his own government. And what did his Russia actually do in the end? It signed trade agreements from 1935 to 1939, supplying Hitler with raw materials for the Nazi war machine.
Stalin was an incompetent fool when it came to foreign policy with the Nazis. If he’d had a shred of common decency, he would have tried to do something about the holocaust OTHER THAN helping the Nazis.
There’s Marxists today is inside and outside of China recognizing that the US is a threat to China and that the US is supporting a genocide in Palestine. China should just go ahead and nuke the US now, otherwise they are helping the US to commit and support it’s atrocities, right?
My reply is totally unrelated to this thread. You seem to be very amped up about this. Reading your comments in this thread you really have a strong opinion on the USA, which is not your country. Which means you have as much influence in it as I do, basically none. My question/point, do you know why you’re so amped up about this?
Stalin tried to form an anti-Nazi coalition with France, UK, etc and they refused.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/stalin-first-tried-to-resist-hitler-with-great-britain-11589838192
Also a pact of non aggresion to win time is barely an alliance
Maxim Litvinov was responsible for opening those talks, and a year later, Stalin fired him for being Jewish and understandably anti-nazi.
Stalin’s antisemitism is a myth. Antisemitism was punishable by death and there still were plenty of Jews present in the party. Shortly after the second world war the Jewish Autonomous Oblast was formed in the USSR to provide a safe haven for Jews.
Stalin was anti Nazi even before Hitler took power.
good, now please remind me when and for what reason was Alan Turing killed?
now remind me what happened in Cuba in regards to LGBT over the past 50 years?
I stg some people are immune to dialectics
even if we take your position 100%, jailing LGBT people is not genocide in the slightest, your position just trivializes actual genocide (unless you mean Holodomor, which you should’ve mentioned, and which is absolutely not man-made and doesn’t count as a genocide as such, even if you can criticize some of its surrounding policies)
you’re probably one of the people who say “personality cult bad”, yet you ascribe to Stalin the level of influence that could singlehandedly flip the modern Russian’s outlook on one of the most polarizing topics in modern times 70 years after his death. Well, news flash, nobody has that kind of power. People act as “conductors” of objective historical forces, and Stalin was no exception, even the CIA said there was collective leadership in Stalin’s time. Communism doesn’t recognize “human rights” or any “universal” morals, so you have to scientifically analyze the LGBT movement to make a case for supporting it. Can you blame Stalin for not personally having done research into the gay question over 20 years before the word “gay” even appeared, during the WW2 and its preparatory phase? In order to answer a question, it must first be asked.
when people criticize Stalin in general, they criticize the objective forces he stood for - namely, the preservation of socialism by all means, in spite of countless wars. When Khruschev proclaimed destalinization, he also proclaimed “peaceful coexistence” with capitalist countries, he proclaimed the “state of the whole people” (as opposed to the dictatorship of the proletariat), and started the ball rolling towards the full restoration of capitalism and dissolution of the USSR. Of course, this too isn’t a personal decision of Khruschev, but a manifestation of broader revisionism and opportunism in the party. This is the reason the Marxist-Leninist movement will continue defending Stalin’s legacy.
I ask you, what state would the world be in if we had had a progressive Soviet Union? One that was 50 years ahead of the states on queer issues? One that was committed to racial and religious equality? How would the fight for global communism be going today if Genocide Joe had not armed the US with material for their propaganda that claims communism is right wing? If everyone in the world knew today that the USSR had been a haven for queer and Jewish people, decades ahead of the capitalist regimes, how easy would it be to persuade people into allies of the communist cause today? How much would a genuinely positive example help us?
Joseph Stalin fought the Nazis on the battlefield, but he was their ally in the cause of bigotry and hate. He had every opportunity to choose to become a progressive, and he refused. Fuck him.
With enough time the SU would’ve eventually gotten there. Here I point to Cuba that similarly had reactionary views on LGBT issues in the past and have the world wide most progressive protections for LGBT people.
Stopping the Holocaust means that Stalin was a bigot and was hateful. Please get a grip.
It shouldn’t take time for a person to realise that criminalising being gay is wrong. You should just know that by the time you’re 5 years old. At the latest. I have no idea what Genocide Joe’s parents taught him as a child, but they obviously failed to raise a good boy. They raised a shithead.
Stalin was a product of his time, which (similar to today) was full of homophobia.
Good people (such as the wonderful scientists at the Institute of Sex Research) are capable of critical thinking and questioning their problematic beliefs. That’s always been true and it always will be. There has never been a time in history when a good person thought we should throw all gay people in jail.
Funny how you ask for critical support for Brandon, but are unable to do so for Stalin
Genocide Joe the first is dead. There’s nothing to gain by supporting him. Biden is alive. He’s most likely going to be a participant in the upcoming election that decides whether my partner lives or dies. I care about my partner’s life.
Ok let me rephrase, it’s funny that you recognize that Brandon is not “a good person” but still are willing to look past his flaws, but aren’t willing to do so for Stalin?
On a serious note: I hope you and your partner will be fine and I mean it. I just doubt that it will be significantly different under Biden than Trump (see caged children on the Mexican border. Biden continues trump’s policy just more “professionally” for a lack of a better word)
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Sounds like lesser-evilism to me. I don’t really have that much of a problem with you thinking all that if you can apply the same mindset to modern politics.