既要革命，就要有一个革命的党。没有一个革命的党，没有一个按照马克思列宁主义的革命理论和革命风格建立起来的革命党，就不可能领导工人阶级和广大人民群众战胜帝国主义及其走狗。
Doesn’t really change the fact that you are commenting on a post where it is explicitly about a “victims of communism” memorial and it turns out the best they could do was a bunch of Nazis which sort of flies in the face of your whitewashing attempt in your comment don’t you think?
Also victims of communism is a ridiculous framing but that’s more of a tangent.
The post is quite literally about a victims of communism memorial that had to be taken down because it was mostly Nazis. Do you read posts before you comment?
I find people are generally more polite when you don’t call them hypocritical blind tribalists and nationalists for not conforming to what you think they should believe based on what you’ve simply osmosised from the hegemonic liberal view on the matter and instead stick to polite questions and requests for clarification until you’re more informed.
I don’t believe those protesters were violent
Most weren’t violent hence the relatively peaceful evacuation of the square itself. That being said there are plenty of images of soldiers in dire straights at the hands of the more violent elements. Here is an English language display of some of the images very NSFW CW:Dead bodies, Violence, Blood, Weapons.
I’ve seen a lot of pictures from the day both before and after the military intervention. I haven’t seen evidence characterising it as anything other than student-led protests, which of course were joined by other civilians. Do you have any?
Cowbee has already provided a wealth of information I would recommend starting with the article by Sun Feiyang and Roderic Day and delving into the sources provided.
BTW I find it disheartening when other leftists don’t seem to understand the concept of critical support, and act like they have to justify anything and everything a government does simply because they otherwise support it. This only drives away others who are open to e.g. opposition of NATO, but not willing to deny human rights abuses in support of that goal. Just seems hypocritical and like you don’t actually stand for any values instead of another flavor of tribalism and nationalism
This is a completely nonsensical and ridiculous reply to me simply pointing out that the protest was more complex than simply a student protest and that the violence was not so one sided and cartoonish but rather the result of clashes between rioters with such peaceful calls as
Don’t let any soldiers escape! Kill them all!
and the peaceful thoughts of CIA operative and student leader Chai Ling:
The students keep asking, “What should we do next? What can we accomplish?” I feel so sad, because how can I tell them that what we are actually hoping for is bloodshed
Who when asked:
Are you going to stay in the Square yourself?
Replied:
No, I won’t. Because my situation is different. My name is on the government’s hit list. I’m not going to let myself be destroyed by this government. I want to live
and the soldiers acting in place of riot police.
I am not at all against criticism of the handling of the events surrounding Tiananmen square in 1989 however that is not what you were doing rather you were merely obscuring the reality to allow yourself to apply easy blanket condemnation in place of real analysis and thought.
student protests
Very reductionist.
run over by tanks
Not really what happened it was more akin to rioters clashing with the military (standing in as riot police).
Definitely a contributing factor but I wouldn’t be so sure that it’s the core or main driver given the long history of orientalism etc.
If this was how the average anti-China poster was on Lemmy and Reddit it would be a marked improvement compared to the blatant aggressive racism, chauvinism etc. of current.
Hating two things is not the same as putting them at the same level
True at the most basic level in the same vein of saying 2 things can be bad. Yes it is possible for 2 things to be bad but no one who ever says this ever means it in that way it is nothing but thought terminating cliche if not expanded upon. The same is true here leaving out the other major ideological power of the time leads the framing to the implication that it sits above the other 2 evils (who are then equatable in comparison).
and I mean to do no such thing
Even if you didn’t mean to the way you chose to frame your comment clearly implies some level of equation between the soviet nondescript horrific crimes and the Nazis in comparison the the capitalist powers who are absent from your comment.
I don’t think you would claim that hating a lesser evil in addition to a grater evil is an example of trivialisation.
Again on a base level this is true but in the framing of your comment there is clearly a level of equation (even if unintentional).
It’s really not so crazy to hate both Nazis and Soviets
Putting the Soviets and Nazis on the same level is plainly ridiculous to the point that in many cases it constitutes a form of holocaust denial(or trivialisation).
Oh here it is! That’s blatantly anticommunist of you.
The Soviets were asked to intervene by the legitimate government of the time. The only people who call it an invasion are those who were backing the Mujahedeen (and later Isis and AlQaeda).
Calling racism and dehumanisation “disagreement” and “free thinking” is a pretty fucked up framing don’t you think?
When’s China gonna get rid of it’s power?
This is the result of someone who has not once even grazed the same room as someone engaging with theory not to mind engaging with it themselves trying to have a gotcha moment.
What are you talking about getting rid of “power” that is absolutely 100% not the communist stance. Communists don’t even advocate for the abolition of government but for the withering of the state which is a separate apparatus that exists fused with the government in class society.
Yes because we’re living in the 1930’s and not 2026, you are very intelligent. /s
Beria has long been accused of luring hundreds of women to his apartment and raping them. Television footage of the dossier showed handwritten lists of dozens of women with their telephone numbers.
Not really the most compelling evidence, or really evidence at all. This is very clearly narrative manufacturingnas opposed to anything of substance.
This is better cited it cites: Gazarian, “O Berii,” pp. 142-143. I’m assuming it means: Suren Gazarian, “O Berii i sude nad berievtsami v Gruzii”. I find 2 issues with this, first is that this article is only ~40 pages so I’m unsure what they mean by page 142-143. Second is that it’s a memoir style writing of Gazarian who was a former NKVD official in Transcaucasia who was arrested under Beria and later frees to aid Kruschev in his de-Stalinization which given what is known about Kruschevs secret speech (it was full of lies) as well as clear motive (for revenge for being wronged) doesn’t bode well.
I will likely edit this comment after reading Gazarian in more depth.
I wish I could live in a make believe world and have no regard for the consequences of my actions like you.
Literally what you’re doing. 🤣
Don’t enjoy your weekend.
It is still several times more than Palestinian deaths caused by Israel.
Why do you keep minimising US atrocities to Palestine? Hundreds of thousands if not millions across Libya, Syria, Somalia, Iraq, Afghanistan, much of Africa as a whole (as they lost Libya and the Western powers fund boko haram and Isis through the CFA franc) and more suffer and die every year.
Democrats, Republicans, and Nazis are all the same I guess.
The Nazis were quiet literally openly inspired by the US. The only thing that makes the Nazis special is that they did what the US and European colonial powers had been doing to us for generations to White people. They have always been the same when it comes to motivation and action the target is the only differentiator. Thank you for again confirming you don’t see non white people as equal humans.
I think I’ll leave this here. I don’t think an obergruppenfuhrer such as yourself will be convinced to view us as equal humans through an online conversation. I’d wish you the best, but I don’t. I hope you one day manage to educate yourself and stop being a white supremacist shitbag.
Robin Shepard
Have a linknid like to see what he cites (I’m not optimistic given his history though he held fellowships with a number of leading think tanks in the United States and Europe including the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars, the Center for Strategic and International Studies, and the German Marshall Fund of the United States).
Amy Knight
A link so I can check their citation would again be greatly appreciated (however again I’m not optimistic given their toes to the American “think-tank” circuit).
But not being optimistic is no reason not to check. I just have a feeling they likely cite who I think they do (or possibly they don’t cite at all) but we’ll see.
You keep saying 700,000 children but that’s not what the statistics say is it? You just looked up USAID deaths and picked the biggest number before putting children next to it. Not a good look when trying to position yourself as the one “speaking facts”.
Not to mind I suppose if Hitler ran some charities you’d be pro Hitler? The fact the us did some good for propaganda purposes is entirely outweighed by the fact that they DESTROYED MULTIPLE COUNTRIES millions of deaths can be directly traced back to US sanctions and the knock on effects of the destruction of Iraq, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan etc.
You are no better than Goebbels.
I don’t think you know what these words mean.