repost, but it’s been a while

  • LovableSidekick@lemmy.worldEnglish
    81·
    14 days ago

    This is the all-time most succinct encapsulation of libertarian thought - giving the government power by voting is tyranny, but random people getting it as a side-effect of money is Freedom.

    • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.worldEnglish
      22·
      14 days ago

      Old enough to remember libertarians who were smugly asserting Social Security caused the Iraq War.

      Now we’re stuck with the libertarians who smugly assert that the Department of Education causes transgender teenagers.

      • Isaac@waterloolemmy.caEnglish
        15·
        14 days ago

        Can’t have transgender teens in school, if you you don’t have school! Checkmate atheists, i mean, liberals.

        /s maybe, who knows what those chuds are doing anymore

        • undergroundoverground@lemmy.world
          6·
          14 days ago

          Say goodbye to the old school, ergh, boring - I hate school!

          Say HELLO to the patriot Mcschool of dreams, brought to you in association with Coca-Cola - to ensure your patriot Mcschool dreams have Real magic - providing children with the very best school-like experience and for prices lower than you’d expect.

    • vga@sopuli.xyz
      20·
      14 days ago

      Yeah, the last 6 months has really shown what Libertarians are made of. Fucking disgusting hypocrites.

      • InternetCitizen2@lemmy.worldEnglish
        17·
        14 days ago

        They’ve always been that way. Its not surprising the “we need to be more selfish” crew isn’t standing up for anyone

  • Stepskippin@lemmy.world
    30·
    13 days ago

    Always thought libertarians didn’t watch nearly enough 90s anime. So much of it was evil corporations and Cyberpunk about evil corporations.

    • alcoholicorn@lemmy.ml
      19·
      13 days ago

      They saw “Look at all the cool technology capitalism is going to bring us!” instead of “Holy shit capitalism will use this amazing technology to make everything worse”.

      • Soup@lemmy.world
        14·
        13 days ago

        “Robot arms!”

        Because they lost their limbs in an avoidable industrial mining accident because safety was too expensive.

        “But look at ‘em!”

        Bruh.

    • ameancow@lemmy.worldEnglish
      16·
      13 days ago

      I too grew up in an age of movies like Star Wars fighting an overtly fascist empire, of Indiana Jones killing nazis, of countless kid’s shows and cartoons emphasizing values like being accepting and not judging people by appearances, of shows like Star Trek explaining the complexity of human societies and using aliens to relay messages of understanding and empathy with others, of science and educational shows like everything on PBS… I thought FOR SURE that these lessons being seen by everyone would lead to a brighter future of mutual compassion and understanding between people.

      Holy shit was I wrong. People didn’t watch ANY of that shit, and if they did, they didn’t think about it, and certainly didn’t take any lessons from it. A vast majority of media-consumers don’t engage with their entertainment I’ve learned, they just experience it and move on without any attempt at making mental effort. Even the lightest mental effort is too much for most people. I’m literally shocked we have the society we do knowing now exactly how ignorant most people are.

      • Stepskippin@lemmy.world
        3·
        13 days ago

        Its a bit deeper and more surreal than that. Growing up politicians had to pretend to not be villians. We voted based on the best showman. If you couldn’t sell your lies, you didn’t get the vote. Now it feels like people vote for who can be the most like a scooby-do villain. I don’t understand how people don’t find that infuriatingly insulting. These people talk to the public with blatant contept, constantly treating their constituents like they’re stupid. It is so fucking blatant! Then I realize people don’t know when they’re being insulted. It’s insane how utterly oblivious people are.

        • ameancow@lemmy.worldEnglish
          1·
          12 days ago

          It’s part of the “nothing ever happens” generation desperate to have a narrative to follow. If they’re going to feel disengaged and disconnected from how complicated politics has become in an increasingly complicated world… WELL MIGHT AS WELL DUMB THIS SHIT BACK DOWN, OOHRAH WWE WRESTLEMANIA YEAH BROTHA ACTION

      • faythofdragons@slrpnk.netEnglish
        2·
        13 days ago

        It’s a hot take, but I sorta blame the late 90s anti-hero for this. Obvs there’s other stuff going on too, but the media influence had a hand.

        I’m a millennial, I grew up with Mr Rogers and Star Trek, but then came my edgy teenage years and all the girls argued about whether to fuck Spike or Angel from Buffy and all the boys wanted to be Tyler Durden. Then I graduated and I was weird for thinking Sheldon from Big Bang Theory was annoying, and characters like House and Blender were cool and lowkey enviable.

        I really think a segment of my generation never stopped trying to be the lovable jerk that only exists in the movies.

        • ameancow@lemmy.worldEnglish
          1·
          12 days ago

          As Gen X, I think I’ve seen all these cycles over and over again, media makes ostensible “role models” that people pattern themselves after, then the pattern changes suddenly as it does and leaves a generation stuck without direction as new role models take the stage and make all the previous adopters resentful of society.

          • faythofdragons@slrpnk.netEnglish
            2·
            12 days ago

            Yeah, I feel like we can draw a direct line between Musk and the typical 90s-00s antihero. He’s acting like Light Yagami from Death Note, not Picard.

            I’m mostly responding to “I thought FOR SURE that these lessons being seen by everyone would lead to a brighter future of mutual compassion and understanding between people.”, because those lessons were seen, but then portrayed as fuddy-duddy optimism by the media of my teens. The message got switched from “lets work together to figure out the solution” to “collaboration is a waste of time because the protagonist is always correct”, and I think that was combined with latchkey kids being normal, and it fucked up multiple generations.

            • ameancow@lemmy.worldEnglish
              1·
              12 days ago

              He’s acting like Light Yagami from Death Note, not Picard.

              Oh in this regard, I blame internet counter-culture not being taken seriously enough in the early 2000’s, those times that we thought all these “ironic nazis” were a fad that would wash out like so many times before, this scene is where people found each other and started creating online movements out of the general, passing angst that everyone feels now and then. Depressed teens finding each other did more to kill Picard than any other media.

              When Somethingawful purged their low-effort users and those users went and formed 4-chan that led directly to much of our current cultural norms, it seems to many like a footnote in internet history, but that led to the formation of several fetid fandoms and subcultures that went on to get signal-boosts from foreign powers looking for every opportunity to play both sides of our nation’s potential stress-points. And they did this to great effect, this is where we saw jokes and memes turn into political movements.

              I don’t know if we could have done anything at the time, maybe if hosts of popular forums and boards and social media were not paid off immediately by Russian bot farms to let them rampage around, maybe if government stepped in early and nipped this interference and passed some kind of legislation against hate-speech on the internet, maybe we could have saved Picard.

              • faythofdragons@slrpnk.netEnglish
                2·
                12 days ago

                Yeah, there are deffo other factors. Edgelord culture, kids raising themselves, school IT being stupider than the students, and so on. Like, my high school IT department blocked all the .com domains and only allowed .gov .edu and .org. That directly led to my entire class discovering 4chan at the same time and somebody hacked the projector to show anime tiddy during class.

                But I really feel like the media influence can’t be ignored. Like, a lot of antiheroes from that time period were edgelords, and I know a lot of my classmates saw them as role models.

    • Coreidan@lemmy.worldEnglish
      16·
      14 days ago

      Weak minded people are easy to exploit

      In other words the people supporting this shit are idiots who have no critical thinking skills.

      • zarathustrad@lemmy.world
        11·
        14 days ago

        Get ready for a full generation of weak minded morons now that the Dept. Of Education is gone. It can always get worse.

        • lumony@lemmings.worldEnglish
          4·
          13 days ago

          Eh, we’ve had that generation for awhile now.

          Public schooling has never fostered critical thinking skills.* If it did, students would be asking themselves why they have to work so hard while rich kids don’t.

          Public schooling has been best at rewarding people who are willing to take abuse while punishing those who do not. It’s main purpose is to create effective servants for the ruling class.

          It doesn’t need to be this way, but it is and will stay until we decide to change our culture.

          *I’ve had great teachers that have gone above and beyond to get students thinking about the bigger picture, usually history and literature teachers. I’m thankful to have met them and studied under them. It’s sad seeing how their hands are tied when trying to really educate students about the world around them.

          • sowitzer@lemm.eeEnglish
            4·
            13 days ago

            Maybe not yet. But that is the ultimate goal. That’s not even a slippery slope fallacy. Poor people don’t need an education, let them start working when old enough for school. These are goals they are working towards little by little. If you don’t know that you are not paying attention. You are just hearing what is said by known liars and believing it for every little step until the goal is met.

            • sfu@lemm.eeEnglish
              1·
              13 days ago

              The removal of the DOE will just allow states to be in charge of their schools, instead of the federal gov. It doesn’t need to be federalized. Most things should be state run, not federal run. The point of having states is so people can more choice in what they want for themselves.

              If you like the way state B operates better than the state F operates, then you have the ability to either move to State F, or to work on convincing those in state B to change the way they operate. But when the fed runs it, you’re stuck with it.

              • sowitzer@lemm.eeEnglish
                4·
                13 days ago

                Just move huh? Just change the government? Simple. I’m sure no state will defy the constitution regarding education. And all states will care about all students and listen to local school boards. Local boards are even smaller and not need the state then. It’s great that it’s all about making things better for all and being more efficient. Sure, that’s the only reason for this. Maybe states should just become their own country, or change the federal government if they don’t like it instead of eliminating it.

                I bet you believe abortion is about “states rights” too. I’m sure it’s all decided now and no need to push for a federal ban. Nobody is pushing for that I’m sure. lol. Do you believe that abortion is only about abortion even?

                It’s not even worth typing out all the ways your whole statement Is silly. Anyone with even a partial brain can see what the end goals have always been. And when given a chance, what they have and will do with the power. And yet people like you just push the absolute dumbest narrative you can and somehow believe it.

              • Doctor_Satan@lemmy.world
                1·
                13 days ago

                The problem with this is that there ends up being no national education standard. You take a state like Alabama, which ranks dead last in so many education metrics, and remove those federal standards. Now Alabama can just change their state standards, and suddenly they have a 100% graduation rate with all straight A students. Guess what happens when Cletus the Alabama valedictorian tries to get a job in the medical field or the tech sector.

                And that’s before we ever even talk about funding. States get about 15% of their K-12 funding from the federal government. Where are the states going to make up that difference? Higher state taxes? Higher property taxes? Or are they just going to let already struggling schools go to shit? Guess who that affects the most?

                You really haven’t put a lot of thought into this beyond “federal gubmint bad”.

                • sfu@lemm.eeEnglish
                  1·
                  12 days ago

                  “Oh no, what will we ever do if the federal government doesn’t set our standards? We are too dumb to set our own standards!”

                  I’m pretty sure the states can figure it out on their own. And any school can feel free to set their own standards even higher if they wish.

        • Coreidan@lemmy.worldEnglish
          1·
          14 days ago

          And it will get worse. It’s been getting worse. Orange dick is just an additional progression of it all.

      • Viskio_Neta_Kafo@lemm.eeEnglish
        2·
        13 days ago

        Yeah, I think it was Matt Walsh that literally made the argument that the government banning porn is wrong and authoritarian but that porn should be banned by all the private companies.

  • TheOubliette@lemmy.ml
    18·
    13 days ago

    Fun etymological fact: very long ago, tyranny used to refer to an autocratic leader that issued a debt jubilee, generally in response to a peasant uprising. A debt jubilee is where most or all debts are declared invalid, a clean debt slate for society, and was generally necessary to keep society functioning. The mini revolution that appointed the tyrant would be short-lived and the prior systen would more or less remain in place, just with cancelled debts.

    • Fluke@lemm.ee
      9·
      13 days ago

      Can you imagine the anguished cries of the parasite classes?

      Truly, it would be music like no other.

      Sure, it won’t solve anything in the long term, but fuck me, a global debt reset would be hilarious. Landlords and banks, zeroed overnight.

      Damn. There’s a thought experiment.

  • skytrim@reddthat.com
    13·
    13 days ago

    “If anyone says they’re a libertarian, I just shrug and leave.” - Atlas In His Own Words

    • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
      31·
      14 days ago

      All libertarians want policies that will allow major corporations to walk all over them, whether they realize it and have a problem with it or not.

        • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
          11·
          14 days ago

          Government is a tool, and whoever is powerful enough can and will use that tool to pursue their interests. Yes, the government serves the rich under capitalism, but the problem is the power of the rich, not the tool. Throwing out the idea of government or limiting it is foolish because 1) it’s throwing the baby out with the bathwater, and 2) if you’re in a position to limit the size of the government, you can just use it to do good things instead.

            • Sleepless One@lemmy.mlEnglish
              6·
              14 days ago

              So basically, why limit the government which fucks you up, if you can become the government yourself and fuck up everyone you don’t like instead.

              Yes

            • lumony@lemmings.worldEnglish
              4·
              13 days ago

              I don’t know what you said, but I can safely assume you’ve been conditioned to believe that government is evil no matter what.

              That kind of indoctrination is hard to overcome, especially when you dig your heels deeper every time you discuss it.

              Try to keep in mind that you’ve been conditioned to work against your own interests by people richer than you. These people recognize the threat government poses to their wealth, so they peddle rhetoric to people like you to get you to vote against your own interests.

              It’s very effective.

              Libertarians that aren’t making money off of the ideology just haven’t grown up yet. Once you look at the libertarians who have renounced their libertarianism, it becomes obvious who’s a child and who’s an adult.

        • Sleepless One@lemmy.mlEnglish
          8·
          14 days ago

          The state under a dictatorship of the booj exists to suppress the proles and mediate conflicts between booj so they can more effectively suppress the proles. Proletarian dictatorship states are based af though.

      • Forester@pawb.socialEnglish
        3·
        14 days ago

        Because every single conservative is an armband wearing Nazi kkk member racist that hates anything that is new and every Democrat is a child eating baby rapist. Couldn’t possibly be that average. People exist generally want the same things and that caricatures of rival political idealogies are not always the most accurate.

    • PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml
      13·
      14 days ago

      Polish libertarians are mostly libertarian-christo-nazi-monarchist mix, and before you ask, i don’t see much sense in this either, but they manage somehow.

    • Buelldozer@lemmy.today
      7·
      14 days ago

      Eh, arguing is fairly pointless and it’s fair for them to point out that with the MC in charge of the LP the other types of libertarians no longer matter.

      • Forester@pawb.socialEnglish
        5·
        14 days ago

        By that logic since Trump won and narrowly scraped a win out of the election putting them in charge. The Democrats no longer matter. What’s the point of having resistance to compete with the People’s choice of fascistic rule.

        Sounds kind of silly when I say it like that doesn’t it?. Just a wild thought you know maybe that instead of focusing on a cultural war that doesn’t need to exist, we can focus on the more class-bound issues.

        But it’s okay. I’m the enemy because Cheks notes the little letter next to my political party didn’t agree with your pre conceived notions of what libertarianism is. But I’m sure all Republicans and Democrats are exact charachactures of pure evil just like my social media drivels as I lack the ability to see the best in people or to realize generalizing groups of people is not a good look.

        I do understand your frustration though the MC can suck my entire dick

        • Buelldozer@lemmy.today
          4·
          14 days ago

          By that logic…

          Sure, why not but I’ve been fighting this notion that all libertarians are An-Caps for 20 years and the rise of the MC has turned an uphill battle into a nearly impossible one.

          There’s really no question that the MC are owned and operated by the string pullers of the Republican Party. They’re doing it in order to to keep the people who do care about Small Government and Individual Liberty from leaving the Republican Party over the MAGA horseshit.